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E-Mods.net => Offtopic => CryEngine 2 Mods => Topic started by: Javokis on 2009-12-31, 19:48:37

Title: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2009-12-31, 19:48:37
I decided to get Crysis Wars setup for modding and was able to start up on my house model again. I've been working on building my house in XSI Mod Tool and using the Crytek Plugin to get the model into Crysis. I had another version of the house, but I rebuilt it with more realistic scaling and will be doing a lot more detailing in this new version.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: wesclash on 2010-01-08, 05:57:22
That's pretty, Javo.  I don't know anything about Crysis.  Is this another project for you or is this a step toward a new Redmption/Vampire-esq world built with these new tools?
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-08, 09:38:34
Maybe both?
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-08, 11:44:04
My original intent was to use this engine to build a new Redemption. But now I'm considering my own original ideas that may or may not be related to vampires. I can't give certainties at what is still an early stage learning experience. If anyone wants to use this engine to port over and create a total conversion mod, I'll provide what support I can. I won't be filling my plate up like I have before. I have canceled all of my other projects to learn CryEngine 2.

The new direction I'll be taking e-mods.net will be about CryEngine 2 and preparing for CryEngine 3. CryEngine 3 plans to come out in 2012 so I was considering holding off on any major projects till then. I'll keep the Redemption content up, but any CryEngine mods, maps, or assets may take priority when the time comes.

 I'll be compiling some useful URL's and YouTube videos that helped me transition to the Sandbox 2 editor sometime in the near future.  If I end up being the only one here transitioning then the likelihood of a vampire mod coming out will be zilch. I'm not going to make a vampire mod if there's no one around to take the initiative. Otherwise, I'll be building more manageable projects that only need one person to carry out.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-08, 17:34:23
As soon as he knows his way arround Cryengine, vampires will haunt Javo im sure of that... sooner or later he wont be able to resist vampire modding.

As soon as Javo learns to use whatever tools Cryengine uses and upload some small tuts for basic modelling stuff im moving too, his tuts are waaay too much easier to follow than what you can find available on the web, he makes tuts and learning much easier to understand.

Would be good to learn to Rig and weight on newer engines, good old days where you had to just asign a mesh to a bone and youre ready to go...

Also there no need for sorrow if Javo decides to abandon Vampire mods, i seen some cool vampires mod from other games... vampires are just too cool to be left out from cool games, soon or later someone will come up with something.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-11, 18:07:03
I made an introduction video with narration:

Sandbox 2 Introduction Narrated by Javokis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVGcQiI1wJM#normal)
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-11, 19:53:28
OH WOW! after 8 years of knowing you i just listened to your voice haha!
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-15, 01:03:08
My new and improved lip sync tutorial featuring tourettes guy.

Sandbox - Lip Sync Tutorial Featuring Tourettes Guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5U4oGQh5sY#normal)

 I wish I did tutorials like these for nod sdk. I still can...
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-16, 08:46:26
Aha i knew it... you always have Redemption in mind hehe... sweet tut.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-16, 16:06:48
Meow... tourettes guy.

[removed - i can do better]

I'll make a tut on how I did later. Probably by monday.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-17, 08:04:08
Wow! i didnt knew Cryengine could do this...
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-24, 13:18:27
I wonder if you will make world of darkness mod using cryengine. I wonder how it would handle actual wod combat, or melee combat in general.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-24, 14:11:18
If this ever happends, i think you cant really implement PnP rules... not in a video game, Troika and Nihilistic said the same thing.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-24, 14:24:44
If this ever happends, i think you cant really implement PnP rules... not in a video game, Troika and Nihilistic said the same thing.

Neither company made PnP rules in the game, so it's kinda moot point - and Nihilistic's system was actually closer to PnP than Troika's one (system, not implementation - Bloodlines is arcade game with some stats thrown in; Redemption is hack'n'slash where stats actually drive the combat), as stat driven combat is essentialy what WoD combat is (well, WoD combat is turn based, B and R are real time).

Back to my question. I should clarify, that i asked about arcade (skill based) combat that 'feels' right in WoD (ie, melee is better against vampires than non-military grade guns, due to vampire's unique physics).
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-24, 21:22:55
Can't be sure if I would go with WoD on this. The engine is popular enough for White-Wolf to get cranky about it (copyright woahs). Redemption and Bloodlines are already licensed for all the White-Wolf content you would ever want to impliment.

Crytek has never purchased a license for White-Wolf content. So they wont have anyone's back if White-Wolf wants to send lawyers to gang rape anyone that pulls direct WoD content into the CryEngine. White-Wolf has been known to be a hardcore "protect my IP at all costs" corporation. They are the Disney of vampires. Quite frankly, I'm rather put off by White-Wolf's obsessive control policies.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-25, 05:44:14
Can't be sure if I would go with WoD on this. The engine is popular enough for White-Wolf to get cranky about it (copyright woahs). Redemption and Bloodlines are already licensed for all the White-Wolf content you would ever want to impliment.

Crytek has never purchased a license for White-Wolf content. So they wont have anyone's back if White-Wolf wants to send lawyers to gang rape anyone that pulls direct WoD content into the CryEngine. White-Wolf has been known to be a hardcore "protect my IP at all costs" corporation. They are the Disney of vampires. Quite frankly, I'm rather put off by White-Wolf's obsessive control policies.

Sure, but both Redemption and Bloodlines have their limitations and are dated.

WW is bit hardcore about it ip (underworld is prime example), but are you sure that they shut down non-commercial projects too (do you have some example of ww shutting down such project) ? Also, it seems that they don't care much about oWoD - they have only one product from oWoD still running - vampire: the eternal struggle.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-25, 11:13:23
I asked them, "Is it all right to create a non-commercial academic game using the owod rules? And they answered "We don't offer that license at this time."

So yes. I asked that personally. They don't support it.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-26, 16:37:38
I asked them, "Is it all right to create a non-commercial academic game using the owod rules? And they answered "We don't offer that license at this time."

So yes. I asked that personally. They don't support it.

Thats maybe cause they don't support owod, and it would not help them profiting from their nwod published books and stuff.

Have you tried asking for nWoD too ? If you are of course interested in it (and the place where it takes place would have surprisingly high number of bloodlines, in fact around 10 - and presence of Mekhet, Daeva would be very thin ... also covenants would be strangely similar to oWoD ones - but it would be nWoD ;) )
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-26, 22:50:49
On one hand, I could take the risk and go for it. On the other hand, I'll have a lot more freedom if I go for a whole new original concept. I've been conflicted to the point of wondering if vampires will even be my theme when I have learned enough about CryEngine to start building a serious mod.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-27, 06:25:33
You got anything else in mind for a mod in Crysis?
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-27, 16:07:48
Haven't you ever wanted to do something with your stories? Why recreate something that isn't yours when you can create something that is yours?

Sure, it'll be fun to do conversion mods like Resident Evil, Silent Hill, World of Darkness, and stuff like that. Despite how much quality work we put into them, we'd never be able to call them our own because they are owned by others. I don't really consider myself an average joe writer. Personally, I know I can write original stuff. I just need to motivate myself to carry through. And I know you have stuff sitting around that you would want to finish too.

Why not take this opportunity to use the engine we've been waiting for to create something that we want to create? Something we've been waiting to create for a long time that doesn't belong to anyone else, but us. I know I want a horror theme, but I also have epic story ideas too. There's so much I want to do, but am so far off from being able to do it.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: EtaYorius on 2010-01-27, 19:42:14
Yeah i totally know what you mean, right now im Writing 2 books, one fantasy and one gothic/horror, i honestly preffer something fresh like you mentioned, but it dosent have to be a mod about a "World of Darkness", but it can still be a fresh idea about vampires or any other "Dark Creatures".

I was planning to mod Oblivion with my fantasy story, but i lack too much knowledge about the engine, so i decided i rather learn Embrace... i may just do my fantasy story inside Redemption.

Anyway, as long as we dont give up in any of our ideas/dreams i think this community will live on... i could go on and keep updating Redemption with NPCs/Props but if you ever decide to leave Redemption, well... it will just pretty much die.

Its you and this site who keeps Redemption alive, not planetvampire or any other site.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-28, 07:54:10
Haven't you ever wanted to do something with your stories? Why recreate something that isn't yours when you can create something that is yours?

Sure, it'll be fun to do conversion mods like Resident Evil, Silent Hill, World of Darkness, and stuff like that. Despite how much quality work we put into them, we'd never be able to call them our own because they are owned by others. I don't really consider myself an average joe writer. Personally, I know I can write original stuff. I just need to motivate myself to carry through. And I know you have stuff sitting around that you would want to finish too.

Why not take this opportunity to use the engine we've been waiting for to create something that we want to create? Something we've been waiting to create for a long time that doesn't belong to anyone else, but us. I know I want a horror theme, but I also have epic story ideas too. There's so much I want to do, but am so far off from being able to do it.

For one, vampiric mythos are not something owned by others. It have many variations, told to us by variety of nations. So neither White Wolf nor anyone else have right to say 'it's our own', and you could claim truthfully it's yours. Creating alternate universe that is similar to our own, but more 'dark and gloomy' is not really that unique (RE, SH, WoD are not that unique - are just neat set of ideas, borrowed from various sources), it's just a canvas where your story could be told. It's a story that is unique, universe is just a scene where acts take place.

Whats more, there are no one World of Darkness - there are multiple WoDs in fact, as all it's 'users' have their own unique vision of 'World of Darkness' and how it's looks like. Take a look at the modding community, each modder have his unique vision how it should play or look like. Take a look at the bloodlines compared to redemption, despite sharing the same world they are vastly different and creators take non similar approach in gameplay and portraying the world around.

So it's totally fair to create horror story in universe similar to our own that have vampires in and is yours.

And btw, it is possible to create something similar to euphoria Dynamic Motion Synthesis, to make good melee combat in the game ?
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-28, 12:38:11
I think you misunderstood what I mean by ownership. Bloodlines and Redemption are under the same license by the same publisher (Activision). Bloodlines is not unique because it follows along with the World of Darkness canon. Redemption used pnp rules from World of Darkness, but is not canon. Both required licenses from White-Wolf. Both belong to White-Wolf.

Ofcourse White-Wolf doesn't own vampires, but they do own their own popular brand of vampires. World of Darkness is their trademark product and they own it. Anyone who makes a story featuring any content contained within White-Wolf's product (pnp rules, characters, plot, ect), does not belong to us and must be licensed. Hence what I've been talking about. You can make a unique story all you want, but if there's a Brujah in it, you'll have to get licensed permission because you're making something that doesn't solely belong to you.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-28, 12:53:17
I think you misunderstood what I mean by ownership. Bloodlines and Redemption are under the same license by the same publisher (Activision). Bloodlines is not unique because it follows along with the World of Darkness canon. Redemption used pnp rules from World of Darkness, but is not canon. Both required licenses from White-Wolf. Both belong to White-Wolf.

Ofcourse White-Wolf doesn't own vampires, but they do own their own popular brand of vampires. World of Darkness is their trademark product and they own it. Anyone who makes a story featuring any content contained within White-Wolf's product (pnp rules, characters, plot, ect), does not belong to us and must be licensed. Hence what I've been talking about. You can make a unique story all you want, but if there's a Brujah in it, you'll have to get licensed permission because you're making something that doesn't solely belong to you.
Sure, i understand the meaning of word 'ownership', and i keep my opinion that it's perfectly fine to create horror theme game in twisted real world with vampires as both protagonists and antagonists. I know that license of both belong to ww, and crytek does not have the license.

Game with similar mood, different characters, rules and plot does not belong to WW. Heck, even many WW names are generic. Brujah is twisted spanish word Bruja. So using former is not within rights, but using latter is perfectly fine. Nosferatu, Gangrel comes from various vampiric mythos or movie. True, there are few things you have to avoid, but nothing severe, mostly names really ...
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-28, 13:58:47
It's funny that you would mention names. I was thinking about making a topic about what can copyright laws truly protect. I guess when I said Brujah, I meant the whole ww literary work behind the Brujah not just the name itself.

I looked up the pdf file on copyright at the gov site and here is what copyright CANNOT protect:

What Is Not Protected by Copyright?

Several categories of material are generally not eligible for
federal copyright protection. These include among others:
? Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of
expression (for example, choreographic works that have
not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches
or performances that have not been written or recorded)
? Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols
or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation,
lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients
or contents

? Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts,
principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a
description, explanation, or illustration
? Works consisting entirely of information that is common
property and containing no original authorship (for
example: standard calendars, height and weight charts,
tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from
public documents or other common sources)

Source link:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf)

With that said, you could actually take Brujah - minus the ww literary work on their version of Brujah. You could possibly take the following concepts of vampires:

-comprised of 13 major clans (concept)
-paralyzed by an oak stake through the heart (system)
-can be given Final Death by aggravated damage (system)
-must battle against their inner monstrosity or become demonically possessed (concept)
-have 7 hit points (system)
-burns in sunlight (common "facts")
-can create other vampires by first draining a mortal's blood to the point of death then feeding the mortal vampire blood. (procedure)
-vampires are "managed" by a vampire prince within each major city (concept)
-there are two major sects that battle out within a major city for control over that city (concept)
-vampires follow a creed called The Masquerade (concept)
-all vampires originate from Caine (concept)
-vampires are facing the end of days (concept)

I think that by themselves, they could be taken without copyright protection. But what about combining them together? Does the combination of these ideas, concepts, and systems make for a literary work? Therefore, must be licensed to use? Or can a whole new plot and world of darkness feel be created with all of the above concepts that white-wolf cannot make claim to?

Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-28, 14:38:12
It's funny that you would mention names. I was thinking about making a topic about what can copyright laws truly protect. I guess when I said Brujah, I meant the whole ww literary work behind the Brujah not just the name itself.

I looked up the pdf file on copyright at the gov site and here is what copyright CANNOT protect:

What Is Not Protected by Copyright?

Several categories of material are generally not eligible for
federal copyright protection. These include among others:
? Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of
expression (for example, choreographic works that have
not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches
or performances that have not been written or recorded)
? Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols
or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation,
lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients
or contents

? Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts,
principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a
description, explanation, or illustration
? Works consisting entirely of information that is common
property and containing no original authorship (for
example: standard calendars, height and weight charts,
tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from
public documents or other common sources)

Source link:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf)

With that said, you could actually take Brujah - minus the ww literary work on their version of Brujah. You could possibly take the following concepts of vampires:

-comprised of 13 major clans (concept)
-paralyzed by an oak stake through the heart (system)
-can be given Final Death by aggravated damage (system)
-must battle against their inner monstrosity or become demonically possessed (concept)
-have 7 hit points (system)
-burns in sunlight (common "facts")
-can create other vampires by first draining a mortal's blood to the point of death then feeding the mortal vampire blood. (procedure)
-vampires are "managed" by a vampire prince within each major city (concept)
-there are two major sects that battle out within a major city for control over that city (concept)
-vampires follow a creed called The Masquerade (concept)
-all vampires originate from Caine (concept)
-vampires are facing the end of days (concept)

I think that by themselves, they could be taken without copyright protection. But what about combining them together? Does the combination of these ideas, concepts, and systems make for a literary work? Therefore, must be licensed to use? Or can a whole new plot and world of darkness feel be created with all of the above concepts that white-wolf cannot make claim to?


Underworld combined all those concepts and was directly ripped off short story in WoD universe, and if i remember right ww sued them and lost. And that was most 'close to the WoD' commercial movie. Why i mentioned names ? Probably that was not names but trademarks, i'm unsure as i don't know law in your country.

Possibly WW just reject to give license due to some contract and it's their policy to avoid giving license ?

I bet various vampiric mythos like vampiric powers are considered "common property", so discipline usage is fine.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-01-28, 16:04:11
This was the case white-wolf made against Underworld:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf (http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf)

Starting on page 10. A lot of their points were crap. Trying to say they have proprietary ownship of silver bullets effecting werewolves and shit like that. This is why I think white-wolf is the disneyland of vampires and one of the reasons I may not even want to go with vampires as a theme. Anyone that does will have to deal with white-wolf's doucheness.  If you look at the points they try to make, white-wolf sounds like they are claiming the entire vampire genre. Shit, "Vampires with great speed!" They mind as well sue Twilight. They didn't have much till they started talked about plot specifics involving Nancy Collin's Love of Monsters.

According to this:

http://www.avvo.com/case/view/collins-and-white-wolf-v--sony-pictures-11181 (http://www.avvo.com/case/view/collins-and-white-wolf-v--sony-pictures-11181)

The settlement was confidential.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Lukur on 2010-01-28, 19:29:47
This was the case white-wolf made against Underworld:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf (http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf)

Starting on page 10. A lot of their points were crap. Trying to say they have proprietary ownship of silver bullets effecting werewolves and shit like that. This is why I think white-wolf is the disneyland of vampires and one of the reasons I may not even want to go with vampires as a theme. Anyone that does will have to deal with white-wolf's doucheness.  If you look at the points they try to make, white-wolf sounds like they are claiming the entire vampire genre. Shit, "Vampires with great speed!" They mind as well sue Twilight. They didn't have much till they started talked about plot specifics involving Nancy Collin's Love of Monsters.

According to this:

http://www.avvo.com/case/view/collins-and-white-wolf-v--sony-pictures-11181 (http://www.avvo.com/case/view/collins-and-white-wolf-v--sony-pictures-11181)

The settlement was confidential.

Nice to know. It was obvious rip off anyway. They indeed have nothing until they started to talk about actual plot. Still, i see vampire mythos as a good genre, and WW does not have it's ownership.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2010-03-11, 20:31:11
I have ideas for what I would like to do for the CryEngine 2. I still have a ways to go before I can make any serious mods, but the ideas can be put out on the table here as they come up.

Things I'd like to do but can't... yet:

*Make first person weapon models with custom animations
*New Interface to select and cast spells (Interface development for CryEngine 2 requires Flash CS - so this is a real downer)

Things that are possible to do:

*Make some new maps and locations (Using SoftImage Mod Tool for props, buildings, ect)
*Cutscenes, dialog, and plot (I'm pretty comfortable with the Sandbox sequencer, Flowgraphs, and Dialog Editor)

So there's something. Ideas and motivations welcomed.
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: RuThaN on 2010-10-03, 09:40:29
Any news?
 I far i know licence for Whitewolfs games had some Icelanding developer studio..

  True is if you want do realy good game, this game need to commercial, more or less.. after you will ask not pleas, pleas cant a breathe, but how much for.. :)
Title: Re: [Ideas] and [Experiments]
Post by: Javokis on 2012-04-27, 14:44:06
I really would like to work on making content for Crysis in the near future. I'll see what I do after I finish the AoR 2012 mod. I really like this game and want to push on this content soon as an eventual change to the direction of E-Mods.net.