common Vampire model parameters

[211]

Hello,
I'm having problem with Vampire crashning becouse of my model (Max->Milkshape->Vampire).

Are there some common parameters that every model has to meet?
Such as closed mesh, polygon limit per model / element / group, model size (stretch) limit, numbers of groups, . . ..
I tryed a lot of combinatios, but vampire just crashes where i don't expect it.

Thanx for answer.

[Javokis]

Every mesh has to be assigned to a bone. If a mesh isn't assigned then that can cause crashes. Also make sure you material is a proper tga format. I think the poly limit is per group. Don't know the exact number.

[211]

I asign every (ctrl + A) model to bone before exporting.
Since i believe Vampire crashes becouse of my model, im testing it with Vampires original textures.

I have quiete complex model, that consist of about 10 parts, where every part has about 2000 triangles. I export every part separately from max, and put them togehter in milkshape.

Strange is, that some parts works fine and other not. This is why i think, that problem is in model. I also don't thing, that problem is in polygon-count (i tryed to replace my problematic part with sphere which has 10x more polygons), number of groups (i replaced problematic part with another = same number of parts) or size (sphere was bigger than my part.

[Javokis]

Are you trying to create a prop object or a character? Props only accept one bone point for which you assign everything to.

If it's a character, Redemption is very finicky about what bones it accepts. You need to import an existing model of similar type then use that model's bone. If you're trying to create a custom rig then everything is bound to blow up on you because Redemption wont accept it.

[211]

It is prop item.
I always watch out for creation of one joint and asign models to it.

[Javokis]

Without taking a look at the model I'm out of ideas.

[CL0wN]

If you have the graphics settings at 32 bit, but your model uses 16 bit targas, it will crash the game. If you have a single vertex not assigned to a bone it will crash. If you have a group that does not have a texture assigned, it will crash. If you have a group that is too complex, it will crash the game. Why not post your model and textures so others can download the model and help?

[211]

Here http://rapidshare.com/files/313127957/e-mods.rar.html or here http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4BO4KK20
you can download .rar file with problematic example (.obj).

Mesh is quiete noisy becouse it is commercial model, anyway problem stays.

If you have the graphics settings at 32 bit, but your model uses 16 bit targas, it will crash the game.
I am using Vampire's default textures. Tryed to switch to 32bit, but problem remain.

If you have a single vertex not assigned to a bone it will crash.
Before exporting to .nod file, i asign everything in scene to my single joint.

If you have a group that does not have a texture assigned, it will crash.
From my testing, if you don't asign texture to group, Vampire use some default "error" texture, but it won't crash the game. Anyway, i tryed to asign Vampires default texture too.

If you have a group that is too complex, it will crash the game.
This is the probelm imho. But what does "too complex" model stands for? -> How should i model my model to avoid this crashes?

Vampire crashes, when i import just first two models from .rar file.
But, if i make groups that is consist of less polygons, for example, every group is consit of about 1000 polygons at maximum, im able to import more polygons at all before the game crashes. Im thinking about some polygon limit per group...
But: "i tryed to replace my problematic part with sphere which has 10x more polygons" <- and it works

Thanks for help, and sorry for my terrible english.  

[Javokis]

When we're talking about simplicity, we're saying to keep geometric. Use primitives rather than curves to build your model. A sphere may have a lot of polies, but its still a primitive. Looking at your viking long ship, I've noticed quite a few exposed faces. XSI is pointing out that there are quite a few edges that don't seem to connect to anything.

Newer game engines like Crysis can easily handle such curve complexity, but Redemption doesn't like it. But even in Crysis the ship looks a bit off. See attachment.

[211]

It would be almost impossible to create model like this ship using primitives such as boxes, spheres etc. <- if im wrong just correct me.

There is tool to check: open edge, double edge, spike and multiple edge in Max, but it returns no error.
There is no tool to look for edges that aren't connect to anything, but i believe that there is no way to create that type of edge in Max.

By exposed edge, you mean edge that enclose just one face?
Tryed to cap holes in my model, but game still crashes.

Model is destroyed a bit, it is commercial model, so i shouldn't give out correct model. I hope, this doesn't couse crashes, it crashes on correct model too.

[CL0wN]

I got this model to work in VTM. You must make less complex vertex groups. You mentioned you broke it into about 12 groups. For a sloppy model like this you need a lot more groups. I used 219 groups. This is quite a bit of work for such a poor looking model. You didn?t include the textures, so I assigned all the groups to the Blackstone texture. You can download the model at http://www.filefront.com/15015747/VikingBoatMess.rar By the way, if you do not assign a group a texture, it does not automatically display the default. It only does that if you assign a texture and the game can not find the Targa, otherwise it will crash.

[211]

Yes!

Thanks for help, it works now.

[Javokis]

It would be almost impossible to create model like this ship using primitives such as boxes, spheres etc. <- if im wrong just correct me.

It is possible and a lot cleaner to use primitives. In XSI, there are features like bevel, extrude, along with deformations like taper, bulge, ect. These features can make a primitve look like anything you can imagine while still keeping the model clean. Does max not have these features? I don't use it much so I can't say. I'm an XSI guy.

[211]

Yes, it has.

I don't use it much, I prefer polygonal modeling (never had problem with this, since Vampire ).
Still, it is hard for me to imagine how can be created exact model by aplying modifiers on primitive, espacially in low-poly modeling.

I should look for some references.

[Javokis]

Every object in the world can be percived with primitives. If you think about the ship in its basic component format, it's series of rectangular wood planks that have bends in them. When you look at a real paddle, it's just a series of cylinders and modified rectangles. Each primitive has a series of faces, edges, and vertices. All of these primitives can be easily modified into anything when you know what to select of that primitive and what deforms to use on the selected portion of the primitive. Just using a series of transforms and subdivisions can turn a primitive into something complex and practical.

There's quite a few examples on YouTube. I learned most of what I know by looking up tips at CryMod as well. Crymod Has some very good modelers.